With songs like Paranoia Hades oni and Pluto Relinquish oni being rated a 10 along with songs like bag, I think it's time for DDR to increase its rating scale up to 11 or 12.

If ratings above 10 were added, these songs should be moved up from 10: PSMO, FELM Oni, FAXX Oni, FAXX heavy, Paranoia Hades oni, Pluto Relinquish oni, Pluto the First heavy, Max.(period) heavy, Max 300 super max me mix oni, Healing D Vision oni, Dead End groove radar special.

 Do you think DDR should have foot ratings above 10 in the next game?

Well the fight goes on. :p

I'm not sure why everyone is so worked up about a little thing. Maybe there should be a standard on which the foor ratings are juged.

I allways thought that 10 footers (and flashing 10 footers) were a hard song and a 1 footer was an easy song.

I wounder if on each mix that when they write for the program they judge the feet on that mix that they are working on at the time. As it is 10 footers are hard!

I have to say I don't think changing the foot rateing would really do anything more that give people more braging rites. :)

True...but how would you know if your playing a normal 10 footer song than a OMG! hard-as-balls over-the-top flashing 10 footer? it WOULD be nice to be able to the foot ratings a little bit more higher than 10, i don't think it would be a bragging right (watch all the kids on youtube be "CHECKA ME OUT! its an 11 footer! =D!!"), but it WOULD help people distinguish between a normal 10 footer than one that would make your legs feel like they have been shot...

If you think 10 footers should stay the way they are, ask yourself this - Do you think songs like bag, Xepher, and Uranus are on the same level as HDVO, FELMO, or Pluto Relinquished?

Didn't think so. 

True, I even have a hard time with Paranoia Hades, it's deffinetly an 11, a higher one too. Mostly cause high speed cross overs suck. They really need to add more difficulty levels, not rescale them. They need to add, then re-rate the songs.

Cross-post from bemanistyle about 10-footer rescaling:

The "inflation" of the 10-foot difficulty doesn't have to be a problem. Konami can acknowledge the widened range of the 10-foot difficulty and actually integrate it into the scale. Consider this graph:



From 1-9 on the scale, the difficulty remains relatively constant. As it reaches 10 on the scale, the difficulty range increases sharply. The range gets slightly greater as it moves on to 11 and 12 on the scale.

This way, the inflation is not a problem, it's part of the scale. And difficulties of older songs will not have to be changed.

(The graph is not exact, it is just an example)

Bag should be a 9, songs like FELMO and PRO should be 11s, and leave 12s for something more relentless.

Maybe not more on foot rating...

but faster BPM! XD 

MdXMaxX, that's how the scale already is. It's a HUGE jump from a 10 to an 11. Even bigger from 11 to 12, 12 to 13, etc. The point of the difficulty is for people to know what there getting into when they pick a song. Imagine having just passed Xepheroni for the first time, you're feeling pretty good about passing your first ten, and want to try another one, and you try FaxXO. It's not going to happen. Of course, you can't really understand this if you're actually capable of passing songs at this level. The difficulty is schizopherenic at best. Sure, it was okay to do that for Extreme, because there were only a couple songs like that. Now we have very easy 10's ala bag and Xepheroni. Then we have 10's that are really elevens. Like PSMO, TLoM (an easy 11, but an 11 none the less), and Phoni, it's oni chart should be an 11, and it's heavy should be a 10.

I guess my point is, if the difficultys aren't properly rated, then we should just ditch the rating scale all together. It wouldn't make a difference now. 

There would be at least one problem. We wouldn't be able to say that DDR songs are rated from 1 to 10; they would be 1 to whatever.

...

...what's wrong with that?

So we could just say the songs are rated 1 to {whatever the highest-rated song Konami has put in a game}.  I see no problem.

I say Konami should add in whatever foot ratings they deem necessary and rerate all songs 9+ :)

If you haven't noticed, 8 footers in SN/SN2 are harder than the older ones. The upper part of the foot rating scale got harder and the bottom didn't really change much. There are some 9's that are harder for me to pass than the 10's right now.

Making the easier 10 footers into 9's, and easier 9's into 8s, etc
and also the hard 8's into 9's, hard 7's into 8's
would keep the scale 1-10 but make it more accurate. 10 footers like bag and Outer Limits, although hard, don't compare to other 10's, and there's some 9's that are more difficult technically.

Anyway something definitely needs to be changed, haha.

It seems like a lot of people think adding more difficulty levels and then re-scaling old songs is a bad idea.  Now I know IIDX and DDR are different games, but bare with me on this comparison.  IIDX was at a point where a level 8 could mean anything from what is an 8 to a 12 today.  The range of difficulties for 8's was absurd and Konami realized it so they changed the scale to 1-12 and then rescaled every old song to the new system.  It worked well, in my opinion.  I'm at the point in IIDX where I can pass most 9's and some 10's.  Before the rescale it was frustrating because I could pass some 8's and then with other 8's there is no way I could ever pass them.

This is very similar to what is going on in DDR.  Some 10's I can do well.  Other 10's I am nowhere near passing, and it seems like there are a significant number of other people who are in the same boat as I am.  I know there aren't as many 10's as there were 8's in IIDX, but I still think it would be smart to add more difficulties and then re-rate past songs (probably only 9+ songs, like limewirelord mentioned).  It seems like there is a lot of demand for harder songs so if Konami does decide to start making more and more difficult 10+ songs then that is all the more reason to rescale now before a "10" becomes even more nebulous than it currently is.

Before they start adding harder songs on the Universe games however, they might want to start giving us a nice metal pad that doesn't have to be modded so that we can accomplish that 12-footer a little more easily and sanely!

(That is of course assuming that one of the "next" DDR games is a Universe game!)

No song in DDR is a 12 yet. >_> What they need to do is. Put all of the ITG (1-3) songs in the next DDR, then have people submit sims to be put as challenge files for every song that doesn't have one. Add every DDR song w/ new challenge steps to it. Then buy the rights to sims like Eggmans One More Lovely, BMRs V, etc.

ITG and DDR are different games LHot.

I wouldn't try and compare the difficulties of the two, because ITG steps are made solely to be challenging, whereas most DDR steps were made for the songs. Some of the ITG steps are just stupid, and DDR doesn't need to have stuff like that. They went far enough with Healing D-Vision and Faxx Oni, both of which are more stupid than Paranoia Hades Oni. At least PHO fits the music.

Well, there are good ITG charts too. We still don't know if Konami can use them in their games, though, since we don't know the exact terms of the agreement.

At any rate, I really respect ITG's cohesion between 9's and 10's. 

Tofu: I'm well aware they are different games. Doesn't mean one can't influence the other. And a good 99% of ITG charts go with the music. The only one that comes to mind right now is Lemmings on the Run on Expert. Other than that, every song is really well synced, a LOT better than the SN series. And ITG was really smooth with the 9's to 10's.

As for FaxXO, it's an okay chart, I can think of stupider charts, *cough DEGRS cough* But again, if you can't actually pass these high level songs, then it's all irelevant and you should escort yourself out of this thread.

In other news, I passed Euphoria today. **** YEAH! 

I'll submit this for ridicule. I'd like to know what other people think.

My Ratings

Basically, we've got Max300. And there are a bunch of songs that are about as hard. Like Paranoia Survivor, some versions of Pluto, and Maxx Unlimited. These are songs that are so much harder than HVAM or Captain Jack that you can't call them nines. So we call them 10s.

And then there was PSMO. I think that was the first solid 11. Since then we've got more songs like Paranoia Respect that are so much harder than the 10s. You think of PSMO, and then you play Max300, and there's big difference. (I put LoM as somewhere in between the two.)

Level 12 I know is going to be controversial. But you have to admit that Dead End (Groove Radar Special), FaxX, and even Max300 (SMMM) are much harder than Paranoia Respect. It's just a matter how much. Is it worth a whole tier? I dunno. I'm positive 12s do exist though. Max300 to FaxX isn't even close to a fair comparison. 

Remember - this is how hard a song is to clear, not how hard it is to AAA. Sometimes, like with Maxx Unlimited or LoM, the two achievements are drastically different. And forget about ITG's rating system. It's different. So Deep would've been a 10 on their system and Charlene is a 10 on my system, about even with Maxx Unlimited. (Charlene is officially rated 11.) ITG also had mines, hands, and doesn't have enough 'data points' to make comparisons with. (Yes, Vertex^2 > all. But that doesn't help me define what a 12 is.)

Charlene is definetly an easy 11, that and Xuxa. But if you don't know how to do Charlene's patterns, your not passing it. My friend can pass July, but can't pass Charlene, the mines are where the challenge lies. BTW, Charlene = harder than MaxX scoring and passing imo.  (I've SDGd MaxX, and haven't even FC'd Charlene even with the lax timing windows.

Ahaha, I wasn't aware I had to be perfect at DDR to have an opinion on the game.

And to clarify, I wasn't talking about how well synced the songs are. Some of the steps on ITG don't make sense, they're just there to be hard, and that's not why I play ddr. A really good song should be a 10 or greater, but not every song is even a 9. Yet ITG tries to make bad songs into 12s. Easier songs with great steps are better than hard songs with arrows thrown onto the screen.

Yet I digress, this website is "DDR Community", not "ITG > DDR Community".

Catastrophe is right though, there are some 10s that are a lot harder than other 10s. I think that's why there are flashing 10s, to help distinguish between the easier 10s and the harder 10s? Maybe..

Just a general note- 

Let's keep personal attacks out of this thread.  We can discuss and disagree and share different points of view (that is what forums are for ), but there is no need to tell people to leave the discussion, or make irrelevent assumptions about their skill at the game.  Let's also keep this thread on topic.  We're talking about DDR and our feelings on the difficult charts and how they should be rated.

Well, my point was. If you can't pass a ten, and you say that the rating system should be how it is now, or change it. You can't give an informed opinion.

Also, I'm sorry if I implied that people here cannot pass [insert difficulty/song here].

Also Tofu, again, name one song other than Lemmings on The Run that has off-sync steps/doesn't go with the music. Every song I've played goes with the music really well. Maybe not on the lead trance synth, but maybe with the bass line, or melodic backings. :\ 

One last thing. The difficulty between one flashing ten (TLoM) and another flashing ten (FaxXO) is a pretty big gap.