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So, assuming Konami actually does care enough to read this stuff...

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Posted by TGLMaxX
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What, if anything, is being done to solve the problems facing DDRSN2 US AC?

You have three choices to answer:

-We're planning to release eAmuse by xx/xx/xxxx

-We're planning to release a patch for the game that will unlock the currently missing content by xx/xx/xxxx

-We plan to do nothing. We encourage you to play our songs on the nearest R21 cabinet because we don't care enough to have you do that on our merchandise. We made our money when we sold the cabinets.

Deletion of this thread will show how little you guys actually care, and how big of a farce these boards really are. Having a press release in the PRESS RELEASE FORUM would be a step in the right direction.

Otherwise, I'm going to take Konami's advice in choice #3, and advise everyone in my area to do the same (even though I don't have to, because we already are).

 
Posted by ToyoWolf
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Wow, this is...a very odd way to get an answer from Konami.

 

...I want to say "crude". :/


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Posted by AJmix
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Their plans were to release DDR SuperNOVA 2 around the Summer or Winter of 2007, along with E-Amuse. They also wanted GFDM V4 to join in, too. Maybe even IIDX Gold.

Betson just didn't want to stick with the plan because they're Betson-rific.

At least, this is what I've heard.

 
Posted by TGLMaxX
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Yeah, I understand that.

So now what?

Does Konami boot Betson and take over and release eAmuse as planned? Do they force Betson to do it? Do they release a patch? Do they leave us out to dry?

There aren't many ways this thing could go, I want to know which way it is, so that I know which way my money goes from hereon in.

As far as this being "crude" goes, I'll pull a line from one of my favourite movies in "Se7en"

Wanting people to listen, you can't just tap them on the shoulder anymore, you have to hit them with a sledgehammer. Then you'll notice you have their strict attention.

Personally, I feel I'm well within my right to be a little ****ed off at getting a game that was completed a while ago, received several months late, and turned out to be half a game because Betson went against Konami's "wishes", which I quote because their intent is suspect.

It's not like Konami isn't at fault here either. They could've watched Betson closer and insisted/made them release the game with eAmuse or some kind of unlock system, but they didn't. Betson's acting on Konami's behalf, but Konami still ultimately gets the final say. So I call BS on this "it's not Konami's fault, Betson did it" stuff.

I'll just keep playing <strike>all the songs we don't have unlocked</strike> every DDR song I want to play on our numerous R21 machines until we get a response or some kind of explanation. Because I'm sure as heck not going to give my money over to a product not worthy of it.

 
Posted by JJKwithDDR
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I don't think that Konami will do anything.  They seem perfectly content with giving us a crippled game with half of the content that we should be able to have, so I'll just play the locked half of DDR SuperNOVA 2 on an In the Groove machine.

 
Posted by Snapps
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I actually don't believe they are content with Betson's decision, yet for now they will probably let it ride before making any future decisions.

 
Posted by TGLMaxX
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JJK - That's still giving money over to a product and company that doesn't deserve it as it stands. Go play everything on R21 for now, the pads are better anyway.

 
Posted by ReneAq
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I agree with TGLMaxX, In order to get a point across, sometimes you need to be strict.  i believe that him, and every other person who enjoys a Konami product, THE CONSUMER, has the right to speak out.  If Konami was to listen to anybody, it SHOULD be us. We are the one playing the games, we are the ones giving OUR money to THEIR product. If the consumer doesn't enjoy the product, they wont purchase it. Konami has to understand that we are dedicated yes, but not dedicated enough to settle for 2nd best when there are other options out there. I'm sure Konami knows this and is slowly, but surely taking action. The creation of this site shows that to me, its a much needed step in the right direction. Our voices need to, and are hopefully, being heard.


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Posted by offblack
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I assure you that Konami does care, they do read these boards, and they know how frustrated players are by the e-Amusement situation.  Any potential decision Konami may make will take time and planning though so please be understanding.


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Posted by maxninja114
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Some people say Konami is to blame, but not Betson, other say its Betson fault for the most part and not Konami's and others say its both!

The thing that we have to do is just be a little patient, everytime something new comes out in the DDR SN2 cabinets in Japan (e.x Pluto got downgraded to Final Stage and Poseidon was unlocked) I get tense and angry because i know that the upgraded versions or dedicabs here in the US don't have it...YET. I don't care if it is Konami's (i hope not) or Betson's (.....) fault, but i think it IS time for them to actually look at the responses and pleads from the many people in this forum. I even predict that we might get all of the good stuff at around the same time Japan got theirs (and that would be in August 2008 for us, and 2007 for them...maybe earlier than that), but none the less, PATIENCE IS KEY! give Konami some time to try and fix this problem, i KNOW they are probably going around trying to solve this problem with Betson, but sadly the only thing we can do now is just wait and see what happens.

 
Posted by MdXMaxX
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I just want to say one thing.  Make sure you guys know exactly what you're talking about before you start complaining.  Are you sure you know exactly why e-Amuse wasn't in the US?  Are you completely sure about whose fault it really is, and how possible it was to release it?  Flaming hasn't really started yet, and as long as you guys know what you are talking about, it won't start.  I'm not giving any opinions because I really don't know much about the whole Konami and Betson situation.



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Posted by piepiepie75
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I think we just need to wait a little bit. I'm glad someone connected with Konami can finally reassure us that Konami knows all about our woes with e-Amuse, but they're probably going to wait to do anything. There's not a good chance of them even releasing e-Amuse right now or very soon. I would hold out hopes for the next AC release. A patch or something is the best bet for unlocks I'm thinking...but Konami is probably waiting until the JP machine is fully unlocked (They still have courses and songs to fully unlock) until they do anything with a patch. If they do release a patch, I hope they unlock the characters/alternate costumes/mods too...:X.

 
Posted by TGLMaxX
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MdXMaxX: Don't tell us to get our facts straight before we post when you don't have any facts yourself, it's a waste of space. Believe me, I have my facts straight, this isn't new news.

The complications with eAmuse and just general unlocking of the game (we could've just had a play-release system if they didn't give us eAmuse), are old news, and news that almost everyone here is fully aware of.

We know what happened, we know who's to blame on the front end, and we want to know what's being done about it.

I don't buy this "it takes time" stuff either, Perry. It takes time to ultimately put a solution out, yes, but it doesn't take time to tell us what they're moving towards.

It's not like Konami has a whiteboard of 1000 different possibilities here. They have three options, the same three that I outlined in the first post here.

I'm dead certain that Konami has made a decision in some way shape or form. Decisions aren't 100% finalized plans of action. Konami can make a decision to have lunch at 1pm and that'd be a decision.

What I'm looking for is SOME kind of response from them, even so small as something like:

"We are currently discussing whether the implementation of eAmuse is feasible" or

"We are currently looking into the possibility of an unlock patch".

Even those one-sentence answers, which do nothing but tell us what they're talking about, help us alot on our ends. It tells us that there really is something going on.

Surely, telling us what Konami is currently discussing over this arcade release, doesn't "take time" and shouldn't take months for us to hear, that's ridiculous. They're talking right now, and I (we) want to know what they're talking about.

 

 
Posted by moose
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Are you sure you know? Have you seen press releases from Betson and/or Konami apprising you of the situation? I mean. You claim to be sure that you know what happened, but then claim you have no idea what Konami's position/response is? That doesn't make much sense.

 

As far as wanting to know what they're talking about, that's all fine and good but you really shouldn't ever expect a corporation as far removed from consumers/users to let them in on what their ideas are or where they are in their negotiations or decision making processes. Even in corporations where they depend entirely on users to make content (like Second Life) you don't get that. So don't expect it here. It'd be NICE to know, but coming off with the attitutde that you have in this post, all sledgehammerlike, doesn't work, especially if you aren't in a position to wield said hammer. ... I'd question if you even own one.


"As for other Bemani news as it relates to the states, there is nothing to report."

 
Posted by MUTE
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I'm enjoying Arriabbata on my local r21 machine...which is back-to-back with a SN2 machine.  Lol.


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Posted by moose
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I've seen some setups like that... I've seen some too where you have them FACING each other. Both setups suck :P


"As for other Bemani news as it relates to the states, there is nothing to report."

 
Posted by thelegendofzaku
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Moose, I know the exact person from within Betson that broke the news on DDR Freak that e-Amuse was getting scrapped here (as a matter of fact, I met him a year and a half ago in a convention in NYC, I still have his card BTW), and his hands were tied in terms of making that call, since he was only the messenger. He said that many of his superiors in his company responsible for making that decision were being driven by the following counterpoints: money in the form of owners unable to afford the card readers, monthly subscription fes, and difficulties in selling e-Amuse cards, Broadband availability since most other online-based arcade games face this massive impediment in trying to get connected in its placed location, and most importantly, its overall feasibility since a good number of these machines will be in casual places like theatres and bowling alleys, defeating any chance of having enough patrons to fully utilize this service.

Looks like TGLMaxX has every reason to be ****ed off at Konami's ineptness regarding this situation. I mean, if they really cared about the American DDR arcade scene, they would of reigned in on Betson's gross malfeasance by now and a) forced them to comply with their demands on offering e-Amuse hardware for sale or b) nullify their contract and seek another distributor more professional to honor and execute the duties of a contract. I know for a fact that lots of miscommunication exists between here and Konami of Japan, which results in one hand not talking to the other, and a lot of mixed info gets sent between bases of operation (i.e. the Memory Card Slot fiasco in SN where Konami America were led to believe that they were coming out only to have Konami Japan refute that info with a valid explaination later on). In other words, we have no explaination from Konami Japan as to how they're gonna resolve this matter, and that's what upsets me and the rest of the community in general, not even a simple one line statement statement that they're looking into the matter.

AgoraPerry, I can understand that the higher-ups are feeling upset at the current e-Amuse situation. However, them feeling upset is one thing, but not doing anything about it while leaving the arcade players in the dark is something else, since their bottom line is at stake here. It's getting to the point where if nothing ever gets done, we'll have no choice but to convince our local arcade owners not to get SN2 or to import the Japanese version, just like the good old days, and since most places with DDR have an ITG2 machine, we'll just play the unlocks off our USB drives. I just hope that at least a Konami Japan official explains some plan of action to fix this, anything. Lemme ask you something: can you, using your sources within Konami get one of them to issue some sort of official statement, anything straight from the horse's mouth that can calm down the rest of the "frustrated" players, which will demonstrate that Konami does indeed care about the arcade scene here?

Personally, if Konami really wants e-Amuse to take off here, they really have to be flexible regarding the connection requirements, since for starters, they officially want a static IP ADSL connection, at least that's how they do it in Japan. It seems that arcades not residing within a 10,000 ft. radius of DSL provider are out of luck. So I guess they have to loosen this up and also allow Cable modem connections and T1 lines, as well as Wi-Fi bridge compatibility. However, we won't know what the official requirements are until card readers are up for sale here anyways, so it's best to take what I just said about requirements with a grain of salt.



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Posted by moose
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Betson's using ddrfreak to release official news? Way to go ddrfreak!

 


"As for other Bemani news as it relates to the states, there is nothing to report."

 
Posted by TGLMaxX
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"I mean. You claim to be sure that you know what happened, but then claim you have no idea what Konami's position/response is? That doesn't make much sense."

Yes it does, because the problem was with Betson not complying with Konami's wishes.......to which Konami hasn't responded.......which I already stated several times, not just in this thread.

Oh, and I (and we) do wield a hammer, it's called our business. Konami won't see it from me personally until they fix things.

Oh Zaku, such a breath of fresh air.

 
Posted by Snapps
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We still can't even get a damned SN2 kit without buying a SN1 kit first which will soon no longer be available thanks to Betson.

 
Posted by moose
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You not playing on a SN2 machine doesn't mean that konami doesn't see profits. Their profit ends once the machine is purchased. Whether it gets played or not doesn't REALLY matter to them.


"As for other Bemani news as it relates to the states, there is nothing to report."

 
Posted by TGLMaxX
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You've made some pretty narrow-minded comments those past few posts man, think outside the box, I'll explain in the second paragraph here.

I'm well aware of how the business works and where Konami sees their profit, which is why I wrote in my very first post, "We plan to do nothing. We encourage you to play our songs on the nearest R21 cabinet because we don't care enough to have you do that on our merchandise. We made our money when we sold the cabinets."

However, having said that, if we don't give the arcades who purchased the cabinets any business, where's the reason for them to get SN3 or whatever it's gonna be called, when it releases? They won't buy it because SN2 was a waste of money for them, and in turn, Konami will suffer. They won't suffer greatly because I'm fully aware that they're a multi-billion dollar company, and losing the US DDR arcade scene may not be a huge hit to their wallet, but at least I'll be able to keep my pride and not be suckered into paying to use inferior, unfinished product, and will have done myself, and my wallet, some good.

Konami and Betson may very well do nothing, but at least I won't have given places in my area any reason to support them in the future. My money's better spent elsewhere than giving my local arcades false feedback in supporting a product that doesn't deserve it.

The R21 cabinets here have been seeing some good business though, I must admit.

 
Posted by moose
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Well, very VERY few arcade owners go out and buy whole dedicabs for the latest and greatest games. Virtually everything is bought with upgrade kits and it's not that hard to make that money back.


"As for other Bemani news as it relates to the states, there is nothing to report."

 
Posted by TGLMaxX
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Now you're just playing devil's advocate.

Would you, the owner of an arcade, be inclined to invest in something that doesn't produce dividends for you? Would spending thousands of dollars on something to have it merely break even, or make just a little over that, be enough for you to make that investment? No.

Don't forget the hydro bills, maintenance (both parts and labour for your technicians), and other expenses that come with operating a machine. The bottom line isn't strictly what the arcade paid for the upgrade kit/cabinet, nor is the focus on merely making back what you paid for it.

 
Posted by piepiepie75
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Considering that the Upgrade kit for SN2 cost something like $2,500 it is unlikely that an arcade owner is only going to break even or make just a little above that. The fact is that no matter how many 'fans' boycott it, it will still make money. If it only had one play a day, it would still break even in less than a year, and we all know that DDR machines usually get more play than that, especially in bigger places like Gameworks and Dave & Busters. Heck, look at DDRSN, it was not held in high standards by many people, yet Konami made a buttload on it, and I'm guessing arcade operators are too seeing how SN2 is selling despite e-amuse or unlocks.

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