I really liked Trigger Expert.  I think the Challenge looked like it was trying too hard to be difficult.  I think Trigger could have done without its Challenge charts.

I can't wait to see what the 19's and 20's look like, I'm always up for a challenge

Mines are not an addition or enhancement; they are an irritating distraction. If Shock Arrows operate on the same idea as Mines, then there is nothing to be gained by using them.

It annoys me when people state something like this like it's a fact, because it is most certainly not true.  It's a personal opinion.

I'll agree that most of time mines are used as an artificial difficulty booster, but it's not always the case.  Mines can be used in clever ways to force the player to move in different ways, or encourage step movement such as ghost stepping or foot switching. 

"Aren't songs like Heaven is a 57, Burning Heat, and Bag broken?  Isn't D2R really late?  Isn't Hyper Eurobeat really early?  But wait, he still played the charts so that he could AAA them.  Why can't he do it with Angelus?  It annoys me when people say they hate current charts (because of sync problems) but are still willing to play older songs that have very similar problems.  I find it to be very hypocritical."

Yeah they're broken.  Yeah he did AAA them.  He could do the same with Angelus, but he chooses not to.  Maybe he doesn't want to go ahead and try to AAA most of SN2?  It's pretty likely, considering the nearest one is over two hours away at an amusement park.

Fair enough, that's pretty understandable.  I was aiming it more at people who have access to both mixes regularly, and still refuse to play the new stuff for those reasons. 

"Wait what?  Since when did every chart have to be "fun"?"

Since this is a GAME that people play for their ENJOYMENT

What I said three posts above you: "If you don't find that fun, then don't do it.  If you enjoy simply playing charts that are fun to you, then more power to you.  Everybody should enjoy a game in their own way."

"As for difficulty, if you don't like the super-hard challenge songs, don't play them. I dunno what the scene in the west is, but here in Japan, it was very exciting watching all the players try hard to pass the new challenge songs. They made it slightly longer each time, until finally passing, then slowly getting their grades up. It was pretty dam satisfying to finally pass the songs too. I don't think they should make the boss songs easier, but they should have more overall difficulty balance."

The heavy charts of each boss song aren't really that bad.  I'd be fine with that difficulty.  And by the way, the heavy charts were the ones that people were clamoring to pass because those were the charts coming out on OMES.  Remember that the first time that we saw Pluto's and Pluto Relinquish's oni charts were when the SN2 JP home version came out.

Yes, I agree with you here.  But I'm pretty sure that people in Japan are still doing to the same with the challenge charts as well.  Someone in Japan made it to NGO in Boss Rush SN2.  Someone in Taiwan full comboed NGO oni on 1x.  From what that guy said, I'm pretty sure that they're still applying it to all challenging songs, even if they don't like the chart.

"I know it's a game, and a game is supposed to be fun.  But come on.  At least try on something that's different."

I have.  Like I said, when it sucks, I'm going to let Konami know that I think it sucks.

Fair enough. 

 


"There's ways around those tough parts in the boss songs.  For Relinquish, you can either heel-toe the ending or just flat out go for it.  It's very fast, but I'll feel a great sense of accomplishment once I pass it."

Tell me how I can POSSIBLY heel-toe that and FC it in the middle of OMES/an Oni course on DDR pads and I might be slightly more ok with the chart.

I'm talking about just passing the song here.  Heel-toeing is typically used just to pass something while sacrificing accuracy (but I'm pretty sure you knew that already).  FC'ing and/or getting a good score is an entirely different story

"For Paranoia Hades, in the beginning you'll have to re-position yourself for those 8th notes into jumps.  You can alternate your feet on the jackhammers in the middle.  You can try to get around those pesky ending jumps (the ones in the middle of the stream) by treating the jump like a 32nd note rhythm (like people do on Tell expert in ITG)."

For me, that doesn't make the jumps any less annoying, and the song would have been tough enough without them.

I agree with you on both counts at a personal opinion level.  I find them annoying too, but I want to try find ways to make those annoying parts easier.

I never said that.

I was simply saying that sometimes a game can provide a challenge, and sometimes people should try overcome obstacles instead of complaining about how "stupid" or "horrible" they are.  I find it fun to figure out new ways to do tricky/challenging charts.  I just wish that more people had this mentality.  It seems to be pretty rare nowadays.

If you don't find that fun, then don't do it.  If you enjoy simply playing charts that are fun to you, then more power to you.  Everybody should enjoy a game in their own way.

Since when did every chart have to be "fun"?

Uhh...

 I know it's a game, and a game is supposed to be fun.

Haha, you know what I mean

The only chart I would say crosses the line of stupidity is Dead End oni, if only for the jackhammers in it (specifically the two sets of 3 L+R 16th jumps).  I rather enjoy NGO oni, as does a friend of mine.  But hey, to each their own

Hehe, this would be hilarious.  You get the jackpot if you AAA your entire set

I like them; they add to the experience.

I'm one of the few people who prefers the SN1/SN2 dancers over random movies like in Extreme.  But I would prefer dedicated videos over anything. 

Oh, and on the topic of Angelus.

You're talking about the arcade?

My friend Goemon who has AAA'd all of Extreme save for 300, Unlimited, PSM, and PSMO hates playing it because it's so broken.  He would LOVE the chart if it wasn't broken, but he says that he CAN'T STAND IT because of how off it is.

Aren't songs like Heaven is a 57, Burning Heat, and Bag broken?  Isn't D2R really late?  Isn't Hyper Eurobeat really early?  But wait, he still played the charts so that he could AAA them.  Why can't he do it with Angelus?  It annoys me when people say they hate current charts (because of sync problems) but are still willing to play older songs that have very similar problems.  I find it to be very hypocritical.

And one more thing.  I agree that we should reserve our judgments about DDR X until we get more information about it.  And I personally really like the cabinet design and the new features.  But I'm a sucker for anything new

It still boggles my mind as to how people can still only play Extreme after so many years.  Sure it was a fun game, but seriously get over it.  Move on with the game (and if you don't want to, then keep playing Extreme and stop bugging other people).  Innovation is what keeps games fresh.  I'm pretty sure if Konami made a game very similar to Extreme more people would complain that it's too similar.

can you honestly say you had fun after playing Pluto Relinquish Oni or NGO Oni?

Wait what?  Since when did every chart have to be "fun"?  I'm going to quote someone who said how I feel about this PERFECTLY:

 "As for difficulty, if you don't like the super-hard challenge songs, don't play them. I dunno what the scene in the west is, but here in Japan, it was very exciting watching all the players try hard to pass the new challenge songs. They made it slightly longer each time, until finally passing, then slowly getting their grades up. It was pretty dam satisfying to finally pass the songs too. I don't think they should make the boss songs easier, but they should have more overall difficulty balance."

I honestly don't understand why more people don't have this mentality.  It's how I still play the game, and it's fun when you have other people around you that feel the same way.  When you were learning how to play, you did it with Extreme 10's (before you knew that they were "good" charts), so you can do it with the more recent 10's.

I know it's a game, and a game is supposed to be fun.  But come on.  At least try on something that's different. There's ways around those tough parts in the boss songs.  For Relinquish, you can either heel-toe the ending or just flat out go for it.  It's very fast, but I'll feel a great sense of accomplishment once I pass it.  For Paranoia Hades, in the beginning you'll have to re-position yourself for those 8th notes into jumps.  You can alternate your feet on the jackhammers in the middle.  You can try to get around those pesky ending jumps (the ones in the middle of the stream) by treating the jump like a 32nd note rhythm (like people do on Tell expert in ITG).  As for as NGO Oni goes, I'm one of the few who thinks that the middle jump sequence fits the climax of the song perfectly, and I love it.  I've found a way to easily do that part, and I feel awesome after I get through that part.  So yes, I do have fun playing NGO Oni.  That's not what you wanted to hear, was it?

I have to admit that I was expecting hands before mines, but I'm happy by principle that we're finally getting a new arrow type.

I agree with you 100% here.

I'm probably the only person who actually prefers the SN/SN2 dancers over random movies like in Extreme.  I don't really know why.

But I obviously prefer dedicated videos over anything else.

 I personally love SN2's grading system, I vote to keep it that way.

PLEASE keep Marvelouses in normal gameplay.  It's probably my favorite new feature to SN2.

I'm fine with the current timing windows in both the Arcade and on Home Versions.  I wouldn't mind if the Home Version timing windows got tighter, but it doesn't really matter to me.

I agree that it needs to be changed that when you get NG's, you should not be able to get a PFC.

I love to play Double.  I play it about the same amount as Single, maybe a little bit less.  I don't mind paying twice the price, since I love playing it so much.

BUT.  I strongly advise that Double Premium is forced to be active on all versions in the future.  This will generate more interest in Double mode.  Because right now, most people are missing out on half the game's content because they have to pay twice as much.  And you don't want to put all the work into making good Double charts if a lot of people aren't going to play them, right?

When I was learning how to play and I saw charts like Max 300 and Legend and whatnot, I thought to myself "that looks tough.  I can't wait till the day that I can pass it".  So nowadays when I see a chart that is, oh let's say "unorthodox", I try to figure out the best way to do it.  I don't just sit back and say, "that's not fun, it's garbage and I never want to play it".  I look to this game for a challenge, as well as enjoying myself.  I guess what I'm trying to say is that a game should be fun, but I also think that it should provide a challenge.

I pretty much agree that there needs to be more charts to fill in the difficulty gap.  Especially moderate to hard 9's, and easier 10's.

I'm all in favor of games being fun, but I remember when people regarded this game as a challenge.  You see a pattern you can't do or don't recognize, and then you figure out how to do it.  It seems that people nowadays want to be spoonfed "fun" charts, what I see as charts that are easy to figure out so you can enjoy them right away.  Nobody wants charts like Arrabiata or NGO challenge because god forbid they make you do an uncomfortable pattern and have to learn ways on how to make it easier.  Nobody wants songs like Chaos or Pluto Relinquish because god forbid they make you remember something (although I think the amount of BPM/stop gimmicks in DDR is adequate).

Back on topic, I don't think every song needs a challenge chart, as long as the difficulty balance is in check.  If there is enough 9's and 10's, then I don't think that every song needs a challenge chart.