Horation Challenge actually looks kind of interesting. If its possible to hit those 16ths in between the shocks it would kind of be like Charlene Expert on crack. That said, its definitely a gimmick chart, and before you get any ideas Konami, do not repeat this. If this chart is fun at all when I actually get to play it I will be perfectly content with only one of its kind.

Also, not sure on what I think about the new rating system yet. It seems kind of like Konami couldn't quite decide exactly what any difficulty meant. Also, I'm noticing a LOT of double steps in these challenge charts (especially On The Bounce), so unless there's something I"m missing to transition from right to left in those places: shame, shame, shame.

But other than those few things (and some poor song choices), this release looks pretty promising, if nothing else a definite step in the right direction. I can't wait to pick this up and I will be playing it like crazy every time I'm at home for a weekend or break. 

You had to have already known about IIDX or frequented a DDR site like BMS or DDR Freak that also had a forum for IIDX or some sort of IIDX following to have known about the game (even the reviews in gaming magazines were tiny boxes in a corner that would be looked over by the average gamer). 

Konami should know better than to expect to do well off of a game that they don't advertise. This game was to satisfy everyone who wanted a local release so they could say "hey, we tried" whenever it came up. I felt gipped by this game, I felt ripped off when I played it. Horrible graphics and some pretty horrible song choices with no harder difficulties for a lot of the good songs.

I would love to see Konami try IIDX in America again, but like they need to do with all of their releases, they need to NOT try and Americanize it. A lot of people in America like other-cultural things, and while IIDX might not be popular with a lot of hardcore gamers, if they advertised it right they could score BIG with a lot of Anime fans and hardcore RPG gamers. But they never advertised the console release to ANYONE, and frankly I don't think the small little American arcade audience is going to be too interested in IIDX, and arcades cannot afford it (which is why the attempt at bringing GOLD over failed).

Pad: Not an issue. They can't stay on PS2 forever, so either someone's going to have to find a way to make PS2 pads work on PS3 or everyone's gonna have to make the transition eventually.

What is the issue? The audience. When PS2 came out it sold like wildfire--everyone got one. Plus it made a world of difference for DDR simply because of the better frame-rate (which actually helped gameplay). But the only real advantage of switching to PS3 is the online capabilities and graphics. We're not using the entire game disc as it is on PS2 (iirc), there are not really any ways to improve gameplay on PS3 that can't also be done on the PS2, and most people that play DDR probably don't have PS3s. Heck, a lot of families have gone out and bought their first PS2 just in the past 2 years as DDR has become more of a big thing with families. So, keep it on PS2 for now.

Of course, a simul-release would be nice. Better graphics and online capabilities for people with PS3s and same songs/charts/modes for people still on PS2. I really wouldn't even mind if there was DLC for PS3 and there were some songs that didn't make it to the PS2 version. But really, I don't think Konami needs to start looking at PS3 until after the '09 PS2 release (unless they plan on releasing the '09 game for BOTH systems).  

I'll do the top 3:

Ultramix 2: Simply had an amazing song-list and great features. I liked pretty much every crossover in this game, the Mr. T songs were great as were the good-cool songs (both artists are greatly missed in recent games). Zonk was AWESOME--Tittle Tattle is still one of my favorite songs in DDR. The boss songs were good (although G2 isn't my favorite), and the graphics and interface was AWESOME. The techy-futuristic theme WORKED here because of how sharp it was. I've always thought the spacey-futuristic themes on PS2 turn out kind of bland. The stepcharts were ALL AMAZING on this game and I loved the ability to download user-created stepcharts. Honestly, I think this may be my favorite DDR game--only problem was the classic XBOX framerate issue.

Extreme 2: I think the first try at a "Master Mode" unlock system was the best. I actually enjoyed it on this game. I didn't even mind having to go through all of the beginner and light charts to get to the interesting stuff. The songlist had a lot of great songs on it, I liked almost everything, but very few songs stuck out to me as being great (no very unique licenses like in the UM/UNI series, but still great songs). But best of all in this mix.... VIDEOS VIDEOS VIDEOS VIDEOS! The videos here absolutely rocked and should be imitated in similar fashion in EVERY future release (until you have a better idea than the dancing stages at least).

Max 2: GREAT songlist and theme. I miss the old school happy DDRs that had funky music in the menus and colorful backgrounds. 

SO!

Song selection and stepcharts like in UM2 (unique songs like Tittle Tattle)

Unlock system like EX2 (if you do a "master mode" type thing), and VIDEOS like EX2.

Themed like Max2 with happiness and funkiness.  

Look To The Sky (and True Color Mix)

Burning The Floor

More Deep

Tsugaru

Tittle Tattle (or whatever the name of that Zonk song from UM2 was)

and more from the UM series that I don't remember cause its been two years since I played DDR on XBOX. 

I love the characters and think that they add to the experience. The only problem is....

YOU STILL ARE NOT BRINGING BACK AKIRA.

Seriously, I don't care if there are characters at all if Akira is not one of them. Note the sig. 

I've been asking for solo back in "what would you like to see in the next home release" type threads for the past three years. The day I got Konamix I fell in love with solo, but the limited number of charts causes it to get old very quick. The thing is, its not really challenging. It might be significantly more challenging once you got to tens, but I found it easy to sight read 6panel after about 30 minutes--I just had to get used to where each arrow scrolled. But even though it isn't significantly more challenging than 4panel, it IS fun. There's more motion to it, and I like that. It takes away from the monotony provided by only 4 panels. I would LOVE to see a solo mode in the next console release, even if it is passed off as a gimmick. Personally, I've been waiting for the solo mission in the "master modes" on the last few releases. I was surprised it didn't make it in.

Oh, and I know the biggest argument against it is "Well, it won't work on a lot of current metal pads." If that's what you have to say, shut it. Just because some players have invested in pads it wouldn't work on  doesn't mean it should not be included, and that's come up in EVERY solo revival thread I've ever seen.

So, thank you MdMaxx for the suggestion, and... Konami--light speed to this thread! 

IMO, Cel is ugly and there's nothing really wrong with the current noteskin.

Ugly I guess is a matter of personal preference, but the Cel noteskin definitely doe have advantages. For starters, its not a sprite, and the way its designed makes it easy to read no matter what the background video is. Second, the colors of each arrow are VERY easy to see making rhythms readable--this is the difference between guessing a rhythm based on spacing and actually knowing what the rhythm is. Metal also gives you these advantages, but I personally think metal is an ugly noteskin. What I would love to see is for Konami to make something new that shares the beneficial traits of these noteskins. For an example, SM4's default arrow is actually very well designed in terms of readability.

BTW, for those wondering, this is relevant to the discussion because Cel and Metal noteskins have the arrow at the top a freeze arrow as the color of whatever beat its on--the "tail" of the freeze arrow is the same color as all freeze "tails." With the current DDR noteskin you don't really get get colors indicative of rhythm (unless you switch to solo, which personally gives me a headache), and even if you did, all freezes are green making it harder to read the rhythm wherever there is a freeze. In Hottest Party the new notation of freezes makes it even harder to read because players used to a freeze jump being ALL green see that one note isn't green, and in my experience, tend to think that its a fast 16th pattern instead of a simultaneous "jump." 

It would be nice if we just got a new noteskin that was better all around *cough*cel*cough*. This is a major debauchery of the already botched sprite. It wasn't bad back in the day, but I think this is yet another thing that could use an update in the next iteration of DDR, and that shouldn't be hard considering the number of (useless) noteskins available as unlocks in recent releases.

What we need is a version for the PSP with a pad coming wired to the UMD... now THAT would be awesome. Can't you see yourself getting onto the bus, taking out your PSP, plopping down a pad, and holding your PSP up to your face as you dance to the music! Portability at its best!

I agree that hand jumps suck unless they are meant to be done with your feet. I actually like the challenge of hitting two arrows at the same time with one foot, and its not too hard. It is obnoxious in the arcade with the wrong shoes though. 

I definitely played though Hysteria 6p the other day and definitely did NOT have hands at the end. As much as I trust DDRF, it has to be arcade only.

Anyways, DDR SHOULD make the jump to hands. As long as they're used tastefully (see: MacGravel's "Cry For You", a more ddr-ish chart) they add a LOT to the chart. Hands in ITG were almost always well placed, and personally I'll use them occasionally in an expert chart. They would add alot to the game, in my opinion, and really seem like a gimmick Konami would have thrown in eventually even if Roxor hadn't done it first.

My DDR Setup:

My Stepmania Setup:

Stepmania and DDR at the same time?!:

My EX2 pad ducttaped to some particle board--still going strong:

Got some non-slip material on the back so it won't slide on wood floors downstairs:

My DDR Pad is Stealthy:

It hides behind my TV Stand when not in use:

My intention is simply to explain that:

1- Companies don't have the imediate rights to create peripherals for the XBOX360--because Microsoft is actually smart and limits the amount of companies that can create peripherals for their system.

2- Lets forget point one--CF and RO would still have to pay royalties and invest in the new controller, which sales of the game show probably wouldn't be too popular. The "hardcore" community doesn't really account for that much of the DDR community as a whole--plus, if we go by your example, veterans will buy the game without the pad. And if anything is holding anyone back from buying the UNI games, its probably the investment in a 360--and THAT is probably what is holding RO and CF back.

3- Just because RO has rights to make the 360 guitar does not mean they have rights to make other types of controllers.

4- These companies know what they are doing and know what they can afford to invest in. When they are confident that there is enough demand and they can offer the new products you want at little risk, they will. These companies have the communities interest at heart, and when they're able to provide a new product, I'm confident that they will with no need for a thread like this.

"Are you really under the impression that there are no madcatz controllers for xbox 360? They are in fact the only third party making dance mats and controllers for the 360. www.madcatz.com Besides that, royalties will not be a problem. Notice how a DDR Universe 2 is ten bucks more than Supernova 2? Thats the "royalty" right there. I think you miss the entire point of this post completely. Thanks so much."

Well, I take that back--for a long period of time, there were no madcatz controllers for the 360. Last time I checked Microsoft still wasn't letting anyone make controllers for their system (although I admit I've been out of the loop for a while now). But even if they've given Madcatz the right to make controllers for the 360, that does not mean that they'll give CF the rights to do so, and if they do, it will not be cheap. And even though CFs run a pretty penny, they are by no means a rich company; same goes for RO. Trust me, if they had the financial means and legal capability to make a control box that would work for 360 they would be. 

 Reeny also has a good point--there probably isn't much of a market for them anyways. As much as many people in this forum would want one, a lot of the hardcore community still hasn't made the move to 360 and they might be waiting for those titles to start doing better with their usual customers. For now, load all of the Universe songs in stepmania, get a USB control box, and go to town.

Sadly Microsoft keeps a tight lock on the rights to make controllers for the XBOX 360--they want royalties from any third party company making a controller for their system. Notice that there are no madkatz controllers out there for the 360. I'll almost guarantee you that its not a lack of interest holding companies like CF and RO back, its limitations with the new hardware and actually getting rights to create controllers that will run on it. This is one of the many reasons I am happy that PS2 DDR has stayed on PS2--there's no reason to make a move to PS3 right now as it will only cause problems.

What level charts do you think there are generally too many and too few of (going by foot rating)?

I think there are often too many 6/7/8s, it just depends on what release you're looking at. It wouldn't upset me so much if many of these charts weren't overrated in recent releases, meaning that there were less actual 8s and hard 7s--also, many songs with hard 6s have potential to be a 7, 8, or 9, and a large number of 6s and 7s can be redeemed by offering more challenge charts for songs like that.

Should tens use time gimmicks to make reading the song harder?

I think gimmicks can work, but I think many of the charts we've seen with them are more annoying than anything. If the gimmicks fit the song and make the chart more fun/flow better than they can be great--example: MacGravel's Stop and Go.

If you LIKE gimmicks, do you think songs like FELM overuse stops and tempo changes?

Yes, at times it felt like arrows were cut out of what would have been the chart would there have been no stops just to make the stops work--and that annoyed the heck out of me. If a song is going to have that many stops/tempo changes in it than it should handle them like the songs in R2112, but there shouldn't be too many of those being made. One of those per console release would be enough, and it should be more of a fun and wierd unlock than a boss song (though it could be hard).

Do you think mines, hands, or rolls will ever find a home in DDR? Do you think we might see another new type of arrow (like the hand movements in HP)? Should Konami put mines/hands/rolls into DDR?

I think hands are a natural evolution of arrow smash--its just one more thing to make it more difficult--and I think they should make their way into DDR. Mines I'm indifferent on, but I think if the charts we're seeing continue in the same style, mines would be more abused in DDR than used well (kind of like time gimmicks are overused right now). Rolls should be left out--they were kind of a cool idea, but they really just become more aggravating then anything. Very few charts have used them well. 

Should Konami gradually add in new difficulty levels (perhaps, add one more "foot" rating per release until they reach songs that cannot be beat at first), or should they just jump right in to making 13s and maybe even 14s and up?

I think they need to at the very least start representing 12s as 12s and 11s as 11s with the harder charts they've already made. I think they should also include a 13 in the next release, and start considering a 14. 

Should they do things on the scale that we've come to know in the ITG and SM community, or should they reinvent the entire scale to be something different?

They should use the ITG and SM scale that the entire online community is familiar with because everyone's already familiar with it, its not capped, all those other great things.

Should every song have a challenge chart? Should challenge charts be the hardest charts, or should they add in an even harder chart (having a total of 6 or more for single) on songs that they think merit an extremely difficult chart?

I think most songs should have challenge charts. I also think it would be cool to have unlockable "edits" that were alternative ideas for whatever difficulty chart. These edit charts would still be rated as easy/difficult/hard or whatever, and you would use the left/right panels to toggle between edit charts on a given difficulty. These would be unlockable, probably pretty rare, and would be a great way to introduce hands and get a feel for whether or not people like them--by only having them in the charts that are really just there because they thought it was fun and a good alternative to the official chart.

Should Konami consider having step chart contests within the community? Would you like to see charts more like those from the best Stepmania authors in DDR, or do you prefer the style of charts currently in DDR?

There should definitely be contests via live for universe (if there aren't already). I think they should also acknowledge SM and release one song for each release that the community can make steps for to submit to Konami. The person with the best submission has their charts for that song included in the game and the oppurtunity to make charts for one other song in the game that noone else would know until release. If some of the best SM artists had a chance to infiltrate Konami's step team I think we could get a lot more interesting charts. I like a lot of DDR charts, but as far as SN/SN2 goes, I prefer a lot of SM charts. The Rebirth team, MacGravel and Nemo, and a lot of others have awesome charts and Konami should take notice and try to emulate them or feature them.

Do you prefer charts (specifically hard charts) from the American or Japanese team? If you played the challenge charts in the Universe series, what did you think of those?

I'll always love some of the older charts--up until extreme we had a LOT of awesome charts coming out of Japan. Extreme 2 was also pretty awesome (if only for Make a Difference), and then SN killed it. Since SN I've preferred KOA's charts, with the exception of a few (I still love Jerk it Out and Centerfold). I think a lot of KOA's challenge charts are really cool. I felt like they could have had less awkward turns and double steps though.

Do you prefer a boss song (anywhere in the 10-16 range) to sound like a "boss song" (menacing, fast, etc.), or do you really care as long as the steps fit the music?

I think a boss song that sounds like a boss song is always cool--its nice to be intimidated by it. But it shouldn't be the make or break factor in deciding what songs get a 10+ chart. In fact, sometimes I like a nice happy song to give me a heart attack with 16th runs.

In this post:

I try to redeem this thread!

Ok, so some questions for y'all. These are just to spawn conversation. I'll respond to my own questions after some other answers (and other questions) have been posted.

What level charts do you think there are generally too many and too few of (going by foot rating)?

Should tens use time gimmicks to make reading the song harder?

If you LIKE gimmicks, do you think songs like FELM overuse stops and tempo changes?

Do you think mines, hands, or rolls will ever find a home in DDR? Do you think we might see another new type of arrow (like the hand movements in HP)? Should Konami put mines/hands/rolls into DDR?

Should Konami gradually add in new difficulty levels (perhaps, add one more "foot" rating per release until they reach songs that cannot be beat at first), or should they just jump right in to making 13s and maybe even 14s and up?

Should they do things on the scale that we've come to know in the ITG and SM community, or should they reinvent the entire scale to be something different?

Should every song have a challenge chart? Should challenge charts be the hardest charts, or should they add in an even harder chart (having a total of 6 or more for single) on songs that they think merit an extremely difficult chart?

Should Konami consider having step chart contests within the community? Would you like to see charts more like those from the best Stepmania authors in DDR, or do you prefer the style of charts currently in DDR?

Do you prefer charts (specifically hard charts) from the American or Japanese team? If you played the challenge charts in the Universe series, what did you think of those?

Do you prefer a boss song (anywhere in the 10-16 range) to sound like a "boss song" (menacing, fast, etc.), or do you really care as long as the steps fit the music?