just to let everyone know:

since the release of X, basically everyone in ohio at least (myself included), if not mostly everywhere, has pretty much given up on DDR.  almost everyone who was playing constantly and seriously a year ago is finding new hobbies, whether it be other music games (mostly iidx; some just to other dance games like itg or pump) or things totally unrelated to this game.

these are all people who were excited for DDR X!  all people who wanted DDR to succeed and do well in the US.  these are all people who wanted e-amusement to be a popular feature, adding a new level of fun to their game!  most of these people didn't for the most part didn't see themselves giving up on DDR so soon a year ago.

congratulations, konami.  you've successfully alienated your US fanbase, or what was left of it after the horrible releases of SN1 and 2.

yeah.  it was ok when i played on it.  left side was better than right, but i got AAAs on both sides.  the monitor looks really nice since it's a new flat crt rather than the stock monitor.

i know the guys who own it if you want to ask anything.

i have to say, i'm pretty much done with ddr after that last announcement.  if konami is going to design/manufacture cabinets that are this bad, i really can't find it in myself to care about new ddr games anymore.  i'll still probably play sn2 and down a lot (and x if upgrades ever come out), but i am sick and tired of being fooled into thinking that the US' situation is getting any better and then finding that it's actually going to be even worse than before.  examples:

-new ddr game!  this is insane!  i thought extreme was going to be the last one?  it's called supernova!  it looks like it's going to be really cool!  oh wait, no, a beta build with lots of typos and bugs was released to arcades.  a syncing patch came out, but all it really did was fix typos and the bug that caused offsets to be loaded incorrectly sometimes.  the game was still very offsync and no one at betson or konami really seemed to care.  not to mention it took over six months from the game's original release (when it was said to be two?) for upgrades to get released, so arcades either had to wait until no one really cared much anymore to upgrade or buy a new cabinet that was of inferior (but still playable in this case) quality.

-sn2 is getting e-amusement!  this game is going to be amazing!  oh wait, we were in the dark for six months about the game's US release, during which everyone who cared lost interest.  let's not forget that e-amusement may as well have not have happened.  one arcade doesn't count, especially an arcade with a terrible unmaintenanced sn2 machine like brunswick zone naperville (by the way, i went TWICE to this arcade to play with e-amusement just because i wanted to see it even though the arcade is over six hours away from my house).  sn2 cabinets from what i hear deteriorated faster than sn1 cabinets did, but i don't know much about that since i play on an old machine upgraded using a japanese sn2 kit now.

-x is coming!  this new cabinet looks amazing!  e-amusement really is coming this time!  no, actually, once again we were all in the dark for six months about the game's US release which, once again, caused everyone who cared (which is a very small number of people by this point) to lose interest.  finally the game comes out!  new cabinets are going to arcades across the country, and since the test location machines were great, these probably will be too!  wait, no, the cabinets are terrible.  they have generic lcd screens with triple ms lag, pads that feel like terrible home pads that no one likes playing on, no "thundering sound system" or light system that even resembles that of the japanese cabinets.  hell, whoever designed these cabinets was too cheap to even put lights in the select buttons.  where's e-amusement?  no one is getting it because it's expensive and takes a very large portion of the machine's income to pay for the service.  at this point, konami can't fix everything wrong without recalling all the cabinets and building new ones.  even with a timing patch, the pads are still going to feel like terrible cheap home pads.  even with a timing patch, the sound system isn't going to get any better.  even with a timing patch, lights aren't going to magically appear where they are in the japanese cabinets.  even with a timing patch, e-amusement isn't going to get any cheaper, which is a feature that most people and arcades are uninterested in.

everyone thought most of x's problems were betson's fault since there have been problems with betson in the past, but this new announcement shows that konami is responsible for what happened here with x's release.  it shows that konami really doesn't care about players in the US.  if konami doesn't care about me, the serious player who has been playing their game and giving them money for over five years, or my opinion, why should i care when a new game is released?  i'm done with this ****ing bull ****.

none of the gameworks machines have e-amusement set up.

"The arrows responding differently shouldn't be a problem, just a change that Konami probably saw as a benefit to the player.

We currently don't see the lag or have issues with the production model.  The beta model might of had those issues."

are you serious?

i played on a production model last night.  it just arrived at my local gameworks (in columbus, oh if you're wondering) a few days ago and was set up yesterday.  as far as i know, i was the first to play on it.  if i wasn't, there weren't too many before me since gameworks had only been open less than three hours when i got there and it didn't have too many people (it WAS a thursday afternoon; most people are at work :P )

it was honestly one of the worst experiences i've ever had with any sort of ddr arcade machine.  the monitor was very very laggy, like, 150+ms display lag.  on the song wheel, i could hold down the button to move the wheel, let go, and the wheel would still be spinning without my hand touching the machine.  as you might imagine, when i tried to play for score, this was detrimental.  the arrows on screen didn't line up with the stationary arrows much at all when one is supposed to hit them for a marvelous.  i don't know how you WOULDN'T see this.

the pads were also horrendous.  i, as well as most of the other local players,  saw many flaws with the metal sheet design. first, the pads aren't going to get maintenance nearly as much causing them to deteriorate faster because, well, everything is harder to get to.  also the metal is thin and will probably get dented within days of being put on location.  the pads themselves are very very insensitive.  my knees hurt after only a couple of sets because of how hard i had to stomp to get the pads to register.  in fact, my knees are still a little sore now.

for an example of how bad this cabinet is, most of columbus' good players stopped by yesterday.  most of these players (including myself) have 150+ AAAs, SDG (less than 10 greats full combo) almost everything, and full combo everything that isn't an SDG.  most played one game and gave up with it because it was so terrible to play on.  the ones that did try to play it still didn't do well.  i saw one SDG throughout the night.  full combos were very very rare.  between everyone, i saw extra stage a grand total of three times (coming from people who get it EVERY SET on any other mix), and it was only passed twice.  the other time the person started by getting goods and instantly failed because of the monitor lag.

if you want to SEE all of these things for yourself, check out this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U11XH95Duds -- you get to see us drop freezes and get pad misses.  not to mention it took one step to get a great for both of us.  you can even listen to the steps and watch the arrows stay a significant amount behind!  you can go check out some of the ddr and itg videos from the same user if you're going to blame it on the camera; the lag isn't there on those videos.

the cabinet looks nothing like what was advertised (different base, different buttons, different graphics, different lights, different monitor, different pads, etc).  somehow, between the great itg2 cabinets released in 2005 for $10k and the great pump it up fx cabinets being sold now for less than $10k, i can't imagine most of the cost cuts for this machine being necessary at all.

when the gameworks general manager came over and asked us how the game was, we told him flat out that it's an awful cabinet and went over all the problems with him.  when we get more in contact with him, we're going to tell him that he'll make more money sending it back and buying an upgrade instead.  at least the game would be playable then. [edit -- my friend who talked more than i did actually told him to buy an upgrade and send it back straight up, he didn't even wait to say it]

oh, by the way, if you're going to try to tell me this is isolated and only this one cabinet, chicago gameworks got one also.  guess what, it's just as bad!  we had a player at our gameworks last night who played at the chicago one earlier this week and said they had all the same problems there too.  and from the look of things, indianapolis' cabinet is awful too (see this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjb-Pc2Q3ZA )

I can't say I'll honestly care about these two changes announced.

I'm fine with new speed mods, but I was fine with the old ones too.  I don't really have any feelings about their inclusion.

DDR being rated 1-13 is fine with me if everything gets rerated (like it appears it will be).  Since hard 8s and easy 9s seem to be 11s, I think I can bet things like Unreal, Konoko, and Max 300 will be 12s and our Pluto Relinquish and Paranoia Hades oni charts will be 13s.  Once again, I don't really have any feelings on it.  It doesn't mean they're making harder stuff, it just means that the rating system will be more accurate.

"Shock arrows wah...

 aka who cares when this comes out you won't even notice them after like one round of playing any song with them."

I still notice mines and hate them.

 "Are you seeing hands in DDR X? No. Rolls? No. Every stupid mod in ITG that while was refreshing for like a day, was completely pointless? No. Songs comprised mainly of 16th streams that kill your stamina or super technical songs of 24ths and 32nds? No."

Have we seen any stepcharts from DDR X? No.

"So anyone can whine and cry about the good ol' days of DDR and how Supernova ruined it or its basically like ITG now or whatever but for now you either like the game, or <strike>make a dramatic post about quitting that no one cares about at a ddr forum only to come back in a couple weeks or months</strike> don't like it."

Sir, I never said I'd quite dance games.   If I indicated anything, it's probably that I'll continue playing Extreme no matter what.

"What we should be debating is whether or not Konami hasn't released e-amuse all over the US yet is because of development on DDR X, and if we will be seeing e-amuse for global edit data support, faster unlocks, and IR. It seems everyone has forgotten that that's really the big issue."

Why should we care about IR, edits, and unlocks when we don't know much about the core game yet?  I've never really competed in IR, I used edits like once (and I have easy access to an Extreme machine with memory card slots), and while unlocks are nice, Konami seems to know what they're doing with them as of SN2.  I'd like to debate about stepcharts and songlists and new features before I debate about things that are either obvious or I'll never use.

"Aren't songs like Heaven is a 57, Burning Heat, and Bag broken?  Isn't D2R really late?  Isn't Hyper Eurobeat really early?  But wait, he still played the charts so that he could AAA them.  Why can't he do it with Angelus?  It annoys me when people say they hate current charts (because of sync problems) but are still willing to play older songs that have very similar problems.  I find it to be very hypocritical."

Yeah they're broken.  Yeah he did AAA them.  He could do the same with Angelus, but he chooses not to.  Maybe he doesn't want to go ahead and try to AAA most of SN2?  It's pretty likely, considering the nearest one is over two hours away at an amusement park.

"Wait what?  Since when did every chart have to be "fun"?"

Since this is a GAME that people play for their ENJOYMENT

 "As for difficulty, if you don't like the super-hard challenge songs, don't play them. I dunno what the scene in the west is, but here in Japan, it was very exciting watching all the players try hard to pass the new challenge songs. They made it slightly longer each time, until finally passing, then slowly getting their grades up. It was pretty dam satisfying to finally pass the songs too. I don't think they should make the boss songs easier, but they should have more overall difficulty balance."

The heavy charts of each boss song aren't really that bad.  I'd be fine with that difficulty.  And by the way, the heavy charts were the ones that people were clamoring to pass because those were the charts coming out on OMES.  Remember that the first time that we saw Pluto's and Pluto Relinquish's oni charts were when the SN2 JP home version came out.

"I know it's a game, and a game is supposed to be fun.  But come on.  At least try on something that's different."

I have.  Like I said, when it sucks, I'm going to let Konami know that I think it sucks.

"There's ways around those tough parts in the boss songs.  For Relinquish, you can either heel-toe the ending or just flat out go for it.  It's very fast, but I'll feel a great sense of accomplishment once I pass it."

Tell me how I can POSSIBLY heel-toe that and FC it in the middle of OMES/an Oni course on DDR pads and I might be slightly more ok with the chart.

 "For Paranoia Hades, in the beginning you'll have to re-position yourself for those 8th notes into jumps.  You can alternate your feet on the jackhammers in the middle.  You can try to get around those pesky ending jumps (the ones in the middle of the stream) by treating the jump like a 32nd note rhythm (like people do on Tell expert in ITG)."

For me, that doesn't make the jumps any less annoying, and the song would have been tough enough without them.

"It was a cellphone camera. It was probably just some kind of glare, once again...please PLAY it before you actually judge it. Konami is not going to be impressed when you're saying it "****ing sucks" without even playing it. Hell, it's FOUR BLURRY CELLPHONE CAMERA PICTURES. If YOU were Konami, would you listen to that opinion? I know I sure wouldn't."

It's still a camera!  I'm still allowed to form an opinion!  That's like saying if I have a picture of a pile of **** on my cell phone, I'm not allowed to say it's gross until I smell it.

"Also, do you guys know about the slowdowns in Angelus? They're very slight, but they're enough to make you get lots of greats if you don't know where they are."

Yes, I'm very aware of the slow downs in Angelus.

"Otherwise, I don't know what the problem is. I just played it on Stepmania with 0.5x and the arrows synched with the music (It was the official stepchart, of course)."

wait, what was that?

"I just played it on Stepmania"

Oh, right.  StepMania simfiles aren't always accurate.

 "Well, check on Zenius,DDRFreak,DDR:UK, BemaniStyle, and even AIJ. The majority opinion from what I've seen is that the cabinet looks nice and is a refreshing change. But hey, by all means let's stick with the old cabinets. Heaven forbid Konami do something new."

I'm not in the least bit against Konami doing something new.  But, when it ****ing sucks, I'm going to make every effort I can to let Konami know that it ****ing sucks and they should do something different.

"But even so, we have FOUR BLURRY pictures of it. Can we actually play on things before we tell Konami how crappy they are?"

Did you see how bright the lights were?  Can you imagine how distracting they would be?

"Angelus is off? That's the first I'm hearing off it, and I've probably played it about 100 times. It goes perfectly with the music and I have no trouble getting AAAs on it.CaptivAte's ending goes with the music. The ending part is one of the funnest charts that DDR has."

You're talking about the arcade?

My friend Goemon who has AAA'd all of Extreme save for 300, Unlimited, PSM, and PSMO hates playing it because it's so broken.  He would LOVE the chart if it wasn't broken, but he says that he CAN'T STAND IT because of how off it is.  He has more greats on it than each of the songs that he has left on Extreme because he doesn't want to play it.

"Hey guys, let's completely judge a game with 0 songs confirmed for it, 0 stepcharts seen from it, practically no interface seen of it, and four blurry cell phone camera pictures of a dedicab that quite frankly, looks better than any DDR cabinet that's been officially released.

This."

That's very subjective.  I've heard very mixed opinions on the cabinet from "it looks like complete ***" to "I'm very excited to play on it", however most (at least from the people that I know and play DDR with irl) lean toward the "it looks like complete ***" comment.

"Just like Pie's been saying, sure you can say you honestly didn't have fun with NGO Challenge, but can you honestly say you didn't have fun with the majority of the other charts?

Your 'biggest problem' with SuperNOVA2 is five songs out of so many more. If that's the game's most significant flaw, then you know what, it's a pretty good game. "

Yes, but when the six songs with horribly unfun stepcharts are arguably the most important songs in the game, I'm a little more annoyed.  Max 300 is fun.  Unlimited is fun.  Legend of Max is fun.  At least around here, they're the most played songs in tournaments also.  If the trend continues, I feel like as a competitive DDR player that I'm obligated to learn these new charts and get good at them if I want to do well in a tournament.

And yes, while the new charts in SN2 are more fun than anything in SN1, I can still feel the game becoming ITG.  Random 16th runs in the middle of Blind Justice that don't go with the rest of the chart are annoying.  CaptivAte becoming difficult out of nowhere at the end isn't fun.  Angelus is broken as **** and I don't think the triplet bug is very fun (and don't give me **** about how the triplet bug is fixed in SN2.  While I agree with that for the most part, Angelus is still broken).  Personally, I didn't like Fire when I played it in Naperville when it was first unlocked, but I don't know the chart well enough to give any reason.

"Noone even knows 'what way' Konami is making this game yet. "

if the game ends up being good rather than being the ITG that I was expecting when writing the post, this thread has done its job

I'm trying to avoid DDR becoming bad before it's too late.  Usually by the time they actually announce gameplay details, the game has already been completed for the most part and it would not be very time-effective to go back and change everything about it when Konami realizes that it may not be what people want.

"So, what exactly do you expect a Konami employee to think when s/he reads this thread? That from the whole 10 screenshots they released, you're not excited by it, and so they should drop everything and completely trash the game and start over?"

I'm not sure if I expect them to think anything.  I don't know how Konami works or how set they are on making the game this way.  I'm giving my opinion in hopes that they have any chance of listening to me.

 "If they were used in regular mode, I imagine there would be a Shocks Off like with freezes, anyway."

Yeah, I'm sure there will be a shocks off feature, but like freezes off in all DDRs and mines off in ITG, the scores WON'T COUNT.  Getting good scores is half the fun for me in this game, and if my scores aren't going to count, it takes out a lot of the fun.

Well, don't get me wrong, I'm still gonna go to the test location and give my thoughts on the game once I play it.

I'm just saying that from all the information that has come out about the game, I personally, and many others aren't particularly excited about this.

"Expecting Konami to not take the widescreen into consideration really is just pushing it a little too far."

I never said I expected it, I said I would like it better.

 "The new charts are "garbage" only to those who have kept playing the same three songs over and over and aren't open to new things."

can you honestly say you had fun after playing Pluto Relinquish Oni or NGO Oni?

"It's so bad that if you took Extreme AC's interface in its entirety and changed it into a different color, improved framerate a little bit but kept some of the off-synch charts intact, added a few dozen songs and called it Extreme2 there'd still be an uproar. The more vocal of the community, not necessarily the majority, just want to play Extreme."

I know of plenty of people that would be fine with that.  And if the more vocal of the community want to play Extreme, why is DDR becoming In The Groove?  Read these boards.  Read AIJ.  Read BMS.  The more vocal in the community want ITG for their DDR and I'm speaking for myself and the people around me that I know would never want that.

 "I guarantee you that's what the majority of players want, the game to get better."

Yes, I can agree with that.  But, making harder, gimmicky charts that no one wants to play isn't going to make a game better.

"and the shock arrows, even though obviously borrowed from ITG, are a good direction, but only if they are implemented right as Freezes were back during MAX."

 Do you know of any one who thinks that mines are actually a good idea rather than a huge nuisance?

"Improving the pad quality and sound system of Dedicabs is also a great idea."

I never said it wasn't.  But, one can improve those things without making an entirely new cabinet that is both distracting and looks like a crazy child of the Pump FX, IIDX, and an ITG2 dedicated cabinet.

"Running the game with BemaniPC will bring DDR back to the level it once was."

I'm just wondering, how will BemaniPC make that much of a difference in syncing arrows to music?  Extreme ran on a glorified PS1 and it didn't look that bad.  I don't mind BemaniPC, i'm just wondering.  All the home versions run on a PS2 and look and feel fine.  Why would BemaniPC enable Konami to make DDR better anymore than a PS2 (aside from the obvious being able to release DDR in Europe again)?

"USB with e-Amuse. This is the best decision that could have ever been made. Kudos to that. :)"

I didn't say everything about the new cabinet was bad.

"Hi, I'm actually excited to see the new setup, sorry."

I said 'almost' :P.  And, you can't tell me that you actually want mines in DDR, which honestly is the biggest thing that prompted me to start this.

Hello, I'm Kalek.  I'm beginning this thread because I am absolutely worried about the future of DDR.  First, let me tell you a small amount about the experience that I've had in the past with DDR.  I began playing DDR at Christmas of 2003.  As of winter or spring of 2005, I began playing In The Groove.  I feel that in this time, I have attained quite an extensive knowledge of both.  I should also mention at this point that I have also been seriously playing Pump It Up for a little over a year.  I continue to play all three for different reasons at different times.  They're all unique in their own way and I hope it continues to stay that way.

I began playing DDR because it was fun.  That's all there is to it.  For once, I found a game that I absolutely loved and I had a drive to get good at it.  Not just good like get As on standard [difficult] songs, I mean like AAA harder heavy [expert] songs.  To this day, the game that I fell in love with is still very fun.  I began playing In The Groove because everyone else seemed to be moving to it at the time and because at the time I felt DDR was kind of easy.

So, I jumped on the ITG bandwagon.  I still played the game that originally made me enjoy the entire dance game genre quite a bit, but ITG was my main focus.  At some point my focus shifted more toward DDR and it has stayed there.  Originally it was because ITG2 came out and the closest machine was an hour and a half away, while the closest DDR was 10 minutes away.  I still got ITG once a month, but there was no real way to get good at it.  In 2006, ITG2 finally hit an arcade near me (actually it's about the same distance as the DDR machines).  After playing it extensively, I quickly found out that ITG songs were boring or just plain bad, and the step charts are were just boring 16th note runs and, they were more stamina draining than hard.

Around the time that this new machine showed up, DDR SuperNOVA also came out.  The local Gameworks had a brand new machine within a week or two of its release.  I was so hyped up over SuperNOVA that I didn't notice at first how bad it was.  Now that SuperNOVA has been around a while, I've realized that none of the step charts are particularly memorable, the interface is ugly, and in general the new licenses weren't particularly good.  I dealt with it, but also continued to play and enjoy Extreme.  Here in Ohio, SuperNOVA didn't catch on as much as other places and a lot of places kept Extreme.  Everyone to this day still continues to play Extreme the majority of the time because it is definitely the better game.

Fast forward to the SuperNOVA2 location test.  I didn't get to go to the location test (although that's not to say I didn't try), but I knew four people that DID go.  I got first-hand information about the location test from people like ranatalus and drano.  I was told (as everyone else eventually) that SuperNOVA2 was definitely going to have E-Amusement, just about everything was on sync, and the song list was significantly better than SuperNOVA's song list (mostly because of "Why not", but a lot of it is good).  Overall, it was a huge improvement and it seemed like DDR was finally going to be fun again, like the days of DDR Extreme.  At the time, I couldn't possibly see how SN2 could come out any later than September or October.  Well, I was wrong.  Everyone was in the dark about SN2 up until December, when rumors started cropping up that SN2 was finally coming.  Betson confirmed this and Ryan Cravens made his rounds to message boards like DDRFreak confirming that SN2 was coming.

I can remember very clearly someone made a post that said only "E-Amusement in the US!"  Immediately, Ryan came back and posted that E-Amusement was not happening, which put the entire community on edge.  Some ended up protesting SN2 because of the lack of E-Amusement, some didn't.  All of Ohio did.  We didn't get an SN2 machine in the state until probably two or three weeks ago.  I have played SN2 quite a bit, both with and without E-Amusement.  I just had to drive 4+ hours [or 6+ for SN2 with E-Amusement] at the time to go play it.  I think the game is a very very large improvement over SN1.  However, E-Amusement makes the game amazing and totally worth the six hours that we had to drive to play it.  E-Amusement made the already fun SN2 absolutely amazing, and not just because of the unlocks.  Getting my Enjoy Levels up and unlocking new characters gave me more reason to play the game than just getting new scores.

My biggest problem with SuperNOVA2 was that the boss songs were much more difficult than they should have been, and for the wrong reasons.  NGO has an absolutely terrible oni chart that imitates one of the worst of ITG.  Paranoia Hades oni has that crazy slow down and 8th runs going into jumps.  Trip Machine Phoenix wasn't that bad, but I can remember a few weird jumps here and there that made me go, "what?".  Pluto oni I don't have much to complain about, but Pluto Relinquish oni's ending is absolutely horrible and I would never like to experience that on feet.  I think that if Pluto Relinquish had the heavy step chart with the standard ending, it'd be absolutely amazing and extremely fun.

I'm not saying that I don't like these charts because I can't do them.  In fact, I don't think i'd have any problems passing or even AAing most of them, with the exception of Pluto Relinquish oni.  Now, remember when I said that I began playing DDR because it was fun?  Yeah, that's still why I play it.  These charts are NOT fun and I get absolutely no excitement from playing them.  The same can be said for things like HDV oni and FELM oni.  If I wanted to play ******it hard songs, I'd go play keyboard charts on ITG.  Sometimes I do get that urge, and that's when I go play ITG, but the vast majority of the time I'm looking for the actual fun of playing the game rather than the satisfaction of beating a difficult song that was absolute hell to get through.

Just recently, as most or all of you know, DDR X arcade was announced.  There's a new cabinet with lots of lights and a widescreen monitor.  There are new features like 'more intense' step charts, and 'shock arrows' where you can't stand on a panel while the arrow passes the targets.  I'll be honest, it looks absolutely terrible.

When the new cabinet was talked about, I was uneasy, but still hopeful.  When I heard about the widescreen monitor, I became significantly more uneasy, but I just hoped that Konami knew to set a lag offset like IIDX DJTroopers and knew to set the aspect ratio correctly.  However, from the recent pictures that I've seen, those lights are going to be extraordinarily distracting.  I don't personally find DDR/ITG lights distracting, but I know plenty who do, and if Konami is making a cabinet that will distract me away from gameplay, think of those people who are already distracted by the standard cabinets.  Honestly, I'm completely and utterly content with the old (Extreme and before cabinet) with a 4:3 flat screen CRT monitor like the one that comes with the Betson cabinets.  Not only that, but I would prefer it significantly over the new style cabinet, just like I prefer Pump GX cabinets over Pump FX cabinets.  If Konami really is set on using the new cabinets, please leave the option for an old style cabinet.  If they aren't sure, I think a ton of people would love to have the old style cabinet back.

About the new gameplay features being announced, specifically "shock arrows" and "more intense step charts", I am appalled.  I did not ever expect Konami to sink this low, to include mines (shock arrows) in their game.  DDR is becoming In The Groove, and I don't like it.  Like I mentioned before, I've played ITG quite a bit, and it isn't fun like DDR is fun.  It hurts me to see the game that I love going downhill so quickly.  Every person that either I or someone else has mentioned these features to has groaned and I don't know of anyone who I still see playing DDR frequently getting excited over this mix with these features.

I love DDR Extreme a lot.  I'd love to see more like it.  I'd maybe venture to say that DDR Extreme arcade is my favorite game ever.  Whatever happened to "We're Starting Over!" and "DanceDanceRevolution Generation Next!"?  DDR Extreme isn't perfect, but it's pretty **** close, and taking this formula that worked so well and becoming more and more like ITG with each iteration of DDR isn't going to help your series.  Konami is driving away DDR's biggest fans, and they're trying to replace them with the ITG players that aren't ever going back to DDR.

I guess my point with this entire post is that DDR should NOT become ITG.  I know that if it does, I personally will continue to play DDR Extreme, but I doubt that me or anyone I know who takes DDR seriously will continue to play anything new.  If you think I'm alone in my opinion, go to http://oddr.net and find out about a large, tight knit community that is completely centered around DDR and dance games and I can pretty much guarantee that everyone there will almost unanimously agree with my opinion of DDR X.  In fact, I'm sitting in a room full of DDR players (six of them specifically) and no one here actually likes the new features of DDR X.  One person said, and I quote, "Mines are the worst idea ever for DDR."  Another (someone who went to the SN2 location test) said "I want to play DDR, not IN THE GROOVE."

Please listen and hear me out on this.  Thanks for reading.

ehh i might be the only one on this boat, but i vastly prefer the old style ddr cabinet monitor (especially the beston monitors, as in they were the only good thing about the cabinet) to a widescreen [presumably lcd] monitor

i don't like how ddr looks stretched to widescreen, but hopefully konami realizes that it looks weird and fixes the aspect ratio (similar to what the pro developers did for FX cabinets and what andamiro did NOT do for NX/2 cabinets).  i also hope that konami figures out a lag offset and makes sure the arrows line up when they're supposed to (again, something andamiro did NOT do).  if they didn't at least figure out a lag offset and the display ended up being laggy, i don't know how i could continue playing ddr considering my method of PA.

"""You guys know there is an actual REASON for the looseness of timing on home versions, right? The polling rate of the PS2 is less than that of the arcade hardware; thus, the perfect window is enlarged to compensate so that you don't get delayed greats."

If that's the case, then why did ITG only have to enlarge the Fantastic window by 2 milliseconds for the home version?  Everything else stayed the same."

^-pwnage."

 actually, in the arcade version of SuperNOVA/2, the ps2 doesn't take input through the controller ports.  instead, it takes input through the usb ports allowing konami to dictate a polling rate rather than use the ps2's set one.

"If that's the case, then why did ITG only have to enlarge the Fantastic window by 2 milliseconds for the home version?  Everything else stayed the same."

technically all timing windows in ITG were widened, and IMO i still feel like i'm getting delayed excellents in comparason to the arcade

as for my opinion, i think that DDR Extreme (arcade)'s scoring and timing system was best.  however, i do think that the machine score formula needs to change to a percent based score (similar to SuperNOVA).

i can't say i care much about marvelous timing.  i'd lean toward it staying out of regular gameplay, but i can live with it being in pretty easily.  however, if it's decided to leave it out, i would like the white target arrow flashes for marvelous to stay.

"If they need to really do anything it's get a flat screen for future ddrs at the very least. No excuse for cheaping out on curved crts anymore."

betson has been doing this since SN1.  the only supernova/2 machines that have curved monitors are ones that were upgraded from extreme and before.

and yeah, lhot, you made it sound like itg2 runs at 800x600 by default, which it definitely doesn't like moose pointed out.  itg2s default to 640x480 60hz, and i've seen one run at 800x600 60hz, however i've never heard of anyone attempting 100hz until now.